Minutes of the 2 June 2005 TSB Meeting
CERN: J. Apostolakis, G.Cosmo, G. Folger, V. Ivanchenko, M.G. Pia,
A. Nairz (partial), F. Ranjard, S. Sadilov, S. Incerti (part time)
LAPP: M. Maire
SLAC: M. Asai, D. Wright, by phone: J. Perl
KEK: K. Amako, T. Sasaki
- Minutes of the 17 March 2005 meeting were approved.
- Action items:
- 27.4: G. Folger: archive of pictures will soon will be available.
-> Provided since meeting.
- 27.6: D. Wright: process/model/physics list catalog: in progress
- 28.6: planning for users' workshop to start
- 30.4: impact on UI of migration to sstream: no report (urgent:
important for December release)
- 31.4: problem with hadronic physics list: not accepted by system
testing because processes are data members. Therefore new
design feature dropped for release 7.1. Problem appears
simple, if tedious, to fix.
Action item (H-P. Wellisch): change
physics lists to accommodate revised particles design,
potentially by instantiating processes and models after
physics list construction. Close item 31.4
- 32.1 closed
- 32.3 Some improvements in Windows platform testing (both hardware
Main improvement: shared testing process with another ITT
member. Problems will be spotted more quickly.
- 32.4 CLHEP 2.0 - open
- 32.5 find out what technical forum requirment 3.13 really means: no
- 32.6 list of journals from category coordinators - open
- 32.7 circulate list of future scientific goals of collaboration:
- 33.1 closed
- 33.2 category coordinators to include publication plan into working
group plans: open
- 33.4 closed
- 33.5 closed
- 33.6 No resolution of who will support SUN which is still required
by BaBar. Testers from several Geant4 sites access remotely
one or more SLAC machines for running tests and checking
problems that arise. D. Wright will discuss further with
BaBar computing coordinator
- 33.7 closed
- Issue raised: large number of queries in HyperNews user forum on
hadronics appear unanswered. TSB encouraged all hadronics group
members to respond to Forum questions.
- News from other meetings:
- Notes from December 2004 LAPP Geant4 meeting are now available
(see link in agenda)
- No CB meeting since last TSB meeting
- Status of release - G. Cosmo: First group of tags has been tested. A
reference tag was released last week. EM physics tags now being tested.
Friday is the deadline for this group of tags. CHIPS tags have
- The EM physics included with the hadronic physics lists is
used incorrectly. A user reports that the muon resolution is
incorrect when using hadronic physics lists and correct when using
example N02. Potentially there are problems with electrons as well.
This problem is part of the 7.0 release and needs to be fixed for the
- CLHEP - G. Cosmo: some installation problems seen in 220.127.116.11. A
bug fix for these will appear in release 18.104.22.168. The migration to
CLHEP 2.0 will not involve many changes beyond the units names for
classes in the Geant4 toolkit. Effects on user code are expected to
be potentially larger.
- News of a pre-release of a library for vectors, physics vectors and
rotation matrices by CERN/LCG personnel was reported (to be extended
to random number generators as well). CERN experiments are evaluating
this proposed library as a future alternative to CLHEP. The CERN
Geant4 team is following developments. Potential future requests to
support this library as a foundation library in place of CLHEP are
anticipated and a proper evaluation will be planned in due time.
- Documentation - D. Wright: deadline for new documentation is
- Data libraries and copyrights: according to ENDF database administrator,
there is no problem with us using and re-distributing their data as part
of the high precision neutron data library G4NDL. We are asked to add
authorship identification and acknowledgement to our download page. The
people at Oak Ridge may help with legal issues in this matter. We need
to know which data comes from which database so all copyrights can be
- Particles - M. Asai: dynamic particle creation is on hold until the
issue with process and model instantiation in the hadronic physics lists
is resolved. Other developments in the relevant categories were
available for release 7.1 by retagging and retesting, leaving out the
dynamic particle development.
New / Open Requirements
- User feedback from MC2005
- Users would like more guidance and information on how to use Geant4.
There appear to be too many choices of models, processes, geometry
- Establish a task force for providing collaboration-wide,
comprehensive assistance and guidance for sensitive physics use
- Action item (person unspecified): establish a
portal for recommending use of physics models and processes, to
provide a common starting point for all use cases.
- Items from the Technical Forum:
- A tag for polarized Rayleigh scattering is in the 7.1 release
- A technical solution for the requirement of selective verbosity is
now available and will be distributed to developers
- No progress on treating particles with dipole moments
- Adding data to G4NDL for rare elements: no new data in ENDF VII
- Examples for R-hadrons are being worked on. These should not be
- Python User Interface needs protection from use of out-of-state
- User limits per region are already implemented
- Request for industrial testing thread in HyperNews Forum: agreed that
it should be set up, but with a 3-month trial period to see if it is
used. Get a preliminary list of users' names.
Infrastructure and Platform Issues
- S. Sadilov: consider moving to Savannah as problem reporting system.
Consider moving Geant4 services to an alternate site. Evaluate the
effort required for this move.
- Savannah has non-sequential bug numbers, otherwise all of its services
are OK. Action item (G.Folger): check with
Savannah to see if we can get sequential numbering
- Current and future plans for platforms - S. Sadilov:
- gcc 3.4 is working in 7.0. 32/64 bit tests in 3.2.3 are all OK,
still testing in 3.4.3. 3.4.4 may be the actual compiler used
- SUN: see action item 33.6
- AMD is not under regular system testing, but is available
- New prototype Geant4 web page is now installed at CERN. 80-90% of
pages converted to xhtml and now use new style sheets. TSB asked to
use new pages for one month, report comments to D. Wright. The plan
is to switch over to new pages by autumn.
- D. Wright will continue to convert pages to new format
- G. Folger will connect download page buttons and set up CVS
for new web page directory
- Can we convert auto-generated pages (e.g. problem report page)
to new format?
- Requested a letter of thanks on behalf of collaboration to Ruth McDunn
for design work on new G4 web page. Also agreed to put acknowledegment
of Ruth on web page.
- Make sure there is room for dates of news items on new web page
Future conferences, meetings and tutorials
- 10th Collaboration Workshop and Conference - S. Incerti:
- registration is now open - fee is 300 Euros
- there may be financial support for French students who wish to
- activities: wine caves, medieval village, dinner at castle,
trip to coast
- Saclay group requests letter of invitation (they will present
work on hadronic models) for member to present model to
Collaboration Agreement and License
- Collaboration Agreement circulated for comment
- Official voter list is now being prepared. Eligibility is based on
whether or not a member has been active during the last 18 months.
- Action item (person unspecified): identify
geant4.com as not part of Geant4 collaboration
- Publications in progress - M.G. Pia: 2nd general paper has been
circulated. The deadline for final comments is expiring, and
submission will be made shortly.
- M.G. Pia: There are two new advanced examples:
- Geant4 distributed computing environment
- Physics validation of Bragg peak protons
Addendum: action items omitted during minutes-taking
- 34.1 - J.P.Wellisch to correct hadronic physics-list implementation
to accommodate revised particles design, potentially by instantiating
processes and models after physics list construction.
- 34.2 - category coordinators who are data providers, to provide to the
Release Coordinator a short description about origins and credits
for each distributed data library, to be put in the download
- 34.3 - M.Asai to figure out what to do with the "Space Applications"
Hypernews Forum, currently empty.
- 34.4 - G.Folger to review the requirements and current status for the
migration of Bugzilla to Savannah.
- 34.5 - J.Apostolakis (or S.Incerti) to make the public announcement of
the Bordeaux Geant4 Workshop.